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Hi all,

 

I need help sourcing Artisian Perfume Alcohol.  The supplier I use just announced today that they will be closing their doors in the next 2 weeks, so I will need to get my perfumers alcohol from another source.

 

Thanks

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I would definitely like to try it, Brenda!  Perfumer's usually use from 10% to 40% fragrance or essential oil to alcohol, so yours sounds like it should handle the normal load.  Clarity is another concern and sometimes a bit more challenging: will the base go cloudy when certain ingredients are added.  Natural perfumers use resins and absolutes in addition to essential oils, and sometimes these things cause cloudiness, but if your base works well with all your fragrance oils, then it is not a concern for you.

I'll send you my address and I would be happy to provide feed-back.  Thanks!

Brenda, I think I sent you an email but I had to guess your email address because my computer never links to emails from websites (a problem on my end, not yours).  If you get my email, just send me a quick response and I'll send my mailing address.  Thanks!

I'm telling you what I know or think I know from my understanding of it all here so if I'm wrong, then someone please correct me.

 

From what I understand from studying, researching and studying some more before I began creating perfumes & men's cologne's over a year ago, there IS a significant difference between perfumer's alcohol and artisan's alcohol. Snowdrift had Lavender Perfumer's which contained lavender as a base for your fragrances. They also offered artisan's with hexylene glycol as a fixative.  This formula allowed for water addition without the clouding.  Straight perfumer's alcohol usually does not. 

 

As for the ATF subject, again this is my understanding.  A long as it is an SDA (usually SDA 40B) that has been certified by the ATF as undrinkable or uncomsumable due to the additive that makes it bitter (sorry, can't think of what it is right off the top of my head...starts with a B...maybe Bitrex), it is not required that the user who will be selling formulations created with it have an alcohol licence and pay the alcohol taxes that go along with that license.  

Thanks for the clarification Ginger.  Artisian Alcohol is what I used and allowed for the addition of water without the clouding, not the Perfumer alcohol.

Ginger is right about the two different formulations: artisan's blend does allow for some water without clouding.  The bitrex makes it undrinkable and perfumers can sell their creations without a license, but suppliers may need special licensing since they are the ones with the alcohol by the drum.

Exactly right, Katie.  In order to purchase more than 5 gallons per year of any of the SD alcohols, the purchaser must register with (and pay a hefty annual fee to) the ATF and meet their requirements to be certified to manufacture with it.  I actually got as far as speaking with an ATF representative at one point, although that was a few years ago and things may have changed in the interim.  No taxes are required to be collected, but you have to qualify for the certification, which we would not.  That's why I was hoping to find someone to manufacture a blend for us that was already certified, and that's how we came to find this fragrance base.  Once it is blended with other components by a manufacturer that's already certified, resellers like me do not need to be certified.  There are just shipping restrictions due to the fact that the alcohol is flammable - no more than 32 oz. per container, and there's also a limit on how many quarts can be shipped in the same box.

I just got off the phone with the manufacturer, and it was an enlightening conversation!   When I got the sample from them originally, I was simply told that it should be blended with fragrance or essential oils to create perfume.  Today, I was given a lot more information, and it sure sounds like it is more of a comparable product to the FORMULATOR's alcohol, not the PERFUMER's.   This technical rep tells me that it can be diluted with distilled water to make colognes, room sprays and the like.  She stated that results would vary depending on the strength of the fragrance materials used, so she could only speak in generalities, stating that when diluting with water, the concentration of the fragrance base should always remain at least 25%, so that there is enough alcohol in the product to prevent bacterial growth.

Those of you who wish to try it - please e-mail me at info (at) oakcourtcreations.com with your shipping information and I'll send some to each of you.  I make no promises on how it will perform when diluted with water - I have not tried that - but I mixed it with fragrance oil and it made very nice purse-sized perfume misters.  

Thanks! 

Brenda Sievers, Oak Court Creations

P. S. Katie, I did not get your e-mail.... sorry!   Please try again.  

Just to update everyone - we've gotten feedback from four testers so far, and all have been overwhelmingly positive.  (One even went so far as to say she liked it even better than Snowdrift's.)

I've also found it interesting that the testers tried different formulations - some just perfume (without water added) and others for colognes and aftershaves that used distilled water - and it seemed to work equally well for both.  Instead of calling it Artisan Alcohol or Perfumer's Alcohol, since it works in place of both of those - what do you think we should call it?  I'm open for suggestions.   :)

It looks like it will be added to our product line - all that's left is to figure out how to put it in our shopping cart to account for the different zones for Parcel Post shipping.  Our cart won't let us have it calculate ONLY Parcel Post shipping on this one item (we have to offer post office services for everything or nothing), so we need to decide how to incorporate shipping into the price, but not penalize those living close by making the "shipping included" price high enough to cover the cost for the shipments going to the most distant zones.

My dad is having surgery out-of-state in early March, and we will be closed for about 10 days so I can accompany him for the procedure.  We should get the product ordered and up for sale on the site as soon as we re-open.  

Thanks everyone for your input and assistance on this one!   

Brenda Sievers, Oak Court Creations

Hi Brenda, 

So glad that you will be carrying it.  As I was one of the tester and thought the product was amazing, I'm looking forward to ordering it as soon as you get it up.  Thanks for giving us a new option.

Maybe call it "Perfumer's Blending Alcohol" or something along those lines.  Many people used Snowdrift's "Artisan's Blend" or "Perfumers Alcohol", so they may be actively seeking a new distributor.  You may want to try to capture that market by using similar words in your product description, so that they find you when doing an online search. 

Good luck with your Dad in March!

I was thinking along the same lines of something like Artisan Perfumery Alcohol.  That way you have both words in the name and if you make sure you use artisans and perfumer's in the keywords, it will get picked upon search quickly. I know when I was looking, I also searched SDA 40b alcohol for what I was wanting so you may want to consider the type as a keyword too.

God bless you and your family during your father's surgery and recovery.  

Brenda, I would definitely make sure your product keywords include perfumer's alcohol.  That way people that are looking for the item, like myself, find it via search engines. 

 

Thank you for following up here!

 

Best wishes for your father's surgery.

 

Mary

Thank you for all the suggestions, everyone!   We will definitely make sure to include all of the terms you've listed in the keywords and product description.  

In case anyone new reads this discussion, just wanted to mention that I've run out of the original lot they sent me to use for samples.... and so far have not had a single negative comment.  I'll be ordering it from the vendor while we are in Detroit, that way the order will be in process and it should arrive right after we reopen.   

Still struggling with how to handle the shipping cost - I know some vendors wouldn't think twice about adding it into the product price and using the highest zone price, but I don't feel right about overcharging those who live closer.  I'm not going to make it super-confusing by using the postal service's zone chart, which uses zip codes, but thought perhaps we could try to divide the country into several regions by states (using the USPS chart as a guideline), and have a drop down box for customers to choose an option to add the proper amount of postage for their region.  That's the best I've come up with so far.   :)

Thanks, everyone, for all of your support during this process!

Brenda

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